System design with Solar
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System design with Solar
Requesting assistance to identify what I need for a system.
Description
I built my house in 2007 and have had solar installed since day 1 with extra electricity generated fed back into the grid but I've always had an electrical bill where the low is about $110 and the high is about $250. The initial intent was to zero-out the electrical bill. I've questioned numerous times why I have such a high electricity bill but nobody (the power company or the solar company) was able to answer my questions. I have an all electric house
1- Elect water heaters - I have two 80 gallon heaters one of which is turn off and bypassed. Initially it was suggested that I install two heaters but later realized that I only needed one for just my wife and myself. When the heaters were installed we took care to plumb so either water heater could be removed/by-passed and each are on their own electrical circuit. One heater is turned off and by-passed.
2- For cooling/heating we installed a Trane heat pump and if I recall correctly it is either a sear 17 or 19. At the time (2007) it was the top of the line unit.
3- We do have gas coming into the house but it is only for kitchen stove and gas fireplace which we don't use.
4- The exterior walls are aerated composite blocks 8 inches thick and if I recall correctly I have about an R40.
5- Foam spray insulation was applied to the underside of the roof thus the house sealed like a thermos bottle.
6- I have 32 solar panels on the near-flat roof of my house. These connect to two Sunny Boy inverters, see the following.
(It seems that I have hit some posting limit and cannot add more images, I'll create another post with these images.
My outside panel that services the house is a 200 AMP Panel, see the following. In my garage for my woodworking tools I have a sub-panel, see the following The main panel is inside the house, see the following What I desire as a system
1- monitor all circuits, 24x7 and be able to see the usage
2-connection to my PC. I may require some wireless units. The main house panel is beside and back-to-back to my ethernet wiring panel. The garage workshop panel and main house service panel are within three feet of each other where the house service panel is on the outside and the workshop panel is on the inside wall in the front of the garage. On the far back wall opposite the workshop panel I do have an ethernet port and it would be possible to run an Ethernet line from the Ethernet wiring panel to the workshop electrical panel. Thus I could go either wireless or wired.
Current thoughts
1- I was thinking of using the Micro-100 for the CT mainly because it is High Accuracy.
2- Most likely I will be doing the installation. I'm not a licensed electrician but I have done quite a bit of house wiring and it has all passed electrical inspections. If necessary I will get assistance.
3- At this time I'm at the design stage ready to move forward.
I just noticed that the pictures are being rotated 90 degrees when I submit the post.
Description
I built my house in 2007 and have had solar installed since day 1 with extra electricity generated fed back into the grid but I've always had an electrical bill where the low is about $110 and the high is about $250. The initial intent was to zero-out the electrical bill. I've questioned numerous times why I have such a high electricity bill but nobody (the power company or the solar company) was able to answer my questions. I have an all electric house
1- Elect water heaters - I have two 80 gallon heaters one of which is turn off and bypassed. Initially it was suggested that I install two heaters but later realized that I only needed one for just my wife and myself. When the heaters were installed we took care to plumb so either water heater could be removed/by-passed and each are on their own electrical circuit. One heater is turned off and by-passed.
2- For cooling/heating we installed a Trane heat pump and if I recall correctly it is either a sear 17 or 19. At the time (2007) it was the top of the line unit.
3- We do have gas coming into the house but it is only for kitchen stove and gas fireplace which we don't use.
4- The exterior walls are aerated composite blocks 8 inches thick and if I recall correctly I have about an R40.
5- Foam spray insulation was applied to the underside of the roof thus the house sealed like a thermos bottle.
6- I have 32 solar panels on the near-flat roof of my house. These connect to two Sunny Boy inverters, see the following.
(It seems that I have hit some posting limit and cannot add more images, I'll create another post with these images.
My outside panel that services the house is a 200 AMP Panel, see the following. In my garage for my woodworking tools I have a sub-panel, see the following The main panel is inside the house, see the following What I desire as a system
1- monitor all circuits, 24x7 and be able to see the usage
2-connection to my PC. I may require some wireless units. The main house panel is beside and back-to-back to my ethernet wiring panel. The garage workshop panel and main house service panel are within three feet of each other where the house service panel is on the outside and the workshop panel is on the inside wall in the front of the garage. On the far back wall opposite the workshop panel I do have an ethernet port and it would be possible to run an Ethernet line from the Ethernet wiring panel to the workshop electrical panel. Thus I could go either wireless or wired.
Current thoughts
1- I was thinking of using the Micro-100 for the CT mainly because it is High Accuracy.
2- Most likely I will be doing the installation. I'm not a licensed electrician but I have done quite a bit of house wiring and it has all passed electrical inspections. If necessary I will get assistance.
3- At this time I'm at the design stage ready to move forward.
I just noticed that the pictures are being rotated 90 degrees when I submit the post.
Last edited by jgt1942 on Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jgt1942
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- Posts: 33
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Re: System design with Solar
Additional photos
Outside panels Solar Sunny Boy label Sunny Boy Inverter Installation These are installed in a basement area and I have an Ethernet line on the opposite side of the wall.
Outside panels Solar Sunny Boy label Sunny Boy Inverter Installation These are installed in a basement area and I have an Ethernet line on the opposite side of the wall.
Last edited by jgt1942 on Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jgt1942
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- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:41 am
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- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:09 pm
- Location: The Bad Lands
Re: System design with Solar
1. What do each of the solar panels in the 32 solar panels array *advertised* to generate?
2. What is your monthly utility bills for the 12 months?
3. What is the cost per KWH in your area and are you on any sort of ToU or tiered pricing?
4. What does the Sunny Box indicate (average) per day you're generating?
2. What is your monthly utility bills for the 12 months?
3. What is the cost per KWH in your area and are you on any sort of ToU or tiered pricing?
4. What does the Sunny Box indicate (average) per day you're generating?
Teken . . .
My ongoing projects thread: http://www.brultech.com/community/viewt ... ?f=2&t=929
Buy me a cup of coffee: https://www.paypal.me/Teken https://gfinotify.com/ Discount Code: PC10
My ongoing projects thread: http://www.brultech.com/community/viewt ... ?f=2&t=929
Buy me a cup of coffee: https://www.paypal.me/Teken https://gfinotify.com/ Discount Code: PC10
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Re: System design with Solar
You'll need 1 CT for every leg of a breaker (single-phase: 1 CT, double-breaker: 2 CTs). The only exception here is if you can determine whether or not the double-breaker has a neutral or not. If there's no neutral, the breaker is balanced; therefore, can be doubled within firmware.
We also have Micro-50s, they can be used on any breaker below 50 amps. They're 1% accuracy like the Micro-100s.
I would start off by documenting each breaker, the amperage, and whether or not it's a double. From there you can determine your CT needs by matching them to appropriate CTs. Then determine your channel needs by determining how many breakers you need to monitor and whether or not you want to combine a few on different channels (at a glance, it looks like to monitor every individually, you'd need 2 GreenEye Monitors).
We also have Micro-50s, they can be used on any breaker below 50 amps. They're 1% accuracy like the Micro-100s.
I would start off by documenting each breaker, the amperage, and whether or not it's a double. From there you can determine your CT needs by matching them to appropriate CTs. Then determine your channel needs by determining how many breakers you need to monitor and whether or not you want to combine a few on different channels (at a glance, it looks like to monitor every individually, you'd need 2 GreenEye Monitors).
Ben
Brultech Research Inc.
E: ben(at)brultech.com
Brultech Research Inc.
E: ben(at)brultech.com
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- Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:41 am
Re: System design with Solar
Teken - I'm going to answer your questions in four separate post just to ensure I don't encounter issues with the max size of a post.
Question 1/4 - What do each of the solar panels in the 32 solar panels array *advertised* to generate?
The panels I have are Sunpower SPR-215-BLK and I have uploaded PDF with the specs. Hopefully this will answer all questions you may have about the panels. If not I need to dig more for the answers.
Question 1/4 - What do each of the solar panels in the 32 solar panels array *advertised* to generate?
The panels I have are Sunpower SPR-215-BLK and I have uploaded PDF with the specs. Hopefully this will answer all questions you may have about the panels. If not I need to dig more for the answers.
jgt1942
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- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:41 am
Re: System design with Solar
Teken - Question 2 of 4 What is your monthly utility bills for the 12 months?
6/1/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -123.58
5/18/2015 Billing 04/17/2015-05/18/2015 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 124.06
5/18/2015 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
4/30/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -109.69
4/17/2015 Billing 03/19/2015-04/17/2015 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 110.17
4/17/2015 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
4/1/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -191.22
3/19/2015 Billing 02/18/2015-03/19/2015 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 191.7
3/19/2015 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
3/3/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -201.25
2/18/2015 Billing 01/20/2015-02/18/2015 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 201.73
2/18/2015 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
2/2/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -338.47
1/20/2015 Billing 12/18/2014-01/20/2015 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 338.95
1/20/2015 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
1/2/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -272.01
12/18/2014 Billing 11/17/2014-12/18/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 272.49
12/18/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
12/2/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -167.56
11/17/2014 Billing 10/17/2014-11/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 168.04
11/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
10/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -154.28
10/17/2014 Billing 09/17/2014-10/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 154.76
10/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
9/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -176.02
9/17/2014 Billing 08/18/2014-09/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 176.5
9/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
8/29/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -229.51
8/18/2014 Billing 07/17/2014-08/18/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 229.99
8/18/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
7/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -257.08
7/17/2014 Billing 06/17/2014-07/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 257.56
7/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
6/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -220.58
6/17/2014 Billing 05/16/2014-06/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 221.06
6/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
5/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -188.36
5/16/2014 Billing 04/17/2014-05/16/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 188.84
5/16/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
4/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -208.42
4/17/2014 Billing 03/19/2014-04/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 208.9
4/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
4/1/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -200.94
3/19/2014 Billing 02/18/2014-03/19/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 201.42
3/19/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
3/3/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -286.15
2/18/2014 Billing 01/17/2014-02/18/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 286.63
2/18/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
1/31/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -311.15
1/17/2014 Billing 12/18/2013-01/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 311.63
1/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
1/2/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -321.67
12/18/2013 Billing 11/16/2013-12/18/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 322.15
12/18/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
12/3/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -173.54
11/18/2013 Billing 10/17/2013-11/16/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 174.02
11/18/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
10/30/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -120.76
10/17/2013 Billing 09/19/2013-10/17/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 121.24
10/17/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
10/2/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -244.1
9/19/2013 Billing 08/19/2013-09/19/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 244.58
9/19/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
8/30/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -257.57
8/19/2013 Billing 07/18/2013-08/19/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 258.05
8/19/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
7/31/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -255.51
7/18/2013 Billing 06/18/2013-07/18/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 255.99
7/18/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
7/1/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -166.45
6/18/2013 Billing 05/17/2013-06/18/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 166.93
6/18/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
6/1/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -123.58
5/18/2015 Billing 04/17/2015-05/18/2015 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 124.06
5/18/2015 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
4/30/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -109.69
4/17/2015 Billing 03/19/2015-04/17/2015 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 110.17
4/17/2015 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
4/1/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -191.22
3/19/2015 Billing 02/18/2015-03/19/2015 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 191.7
3/19/2015 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
3/3/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -201.25
2/18/2015 Billing 01/20/2015-02/18/2015 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 201.73
2/18/2015 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
2/2/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -338.47
1/20/2015 Billing 12/18/2014-01/20/2015 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 338.95
1/20/2015 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
1/2/2015 PAYMENT APPLIED -272.01
12/18/2014 Billing 11/17/2014-12/18/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 272.49
12/18/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
12/2/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -167.56
11/17/2014 Billing 10/17/2014-11/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 168.04
11/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
10/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -154.28
10/17/2014 Billing 09/17/2014-10/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 154.76
10/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
9/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -176.02
9/17/2014 Billing 08/18/2014-09/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 176.5
9/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
8/29/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -229.51
8/18/2014 Billing 07/17/2014-08/18/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 229.99
8/18/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
7/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -257.08
7/17/2014 Billing 06/17/2014-07/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 257.56
7/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
6/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -220.58
6/17/2014 Billing 05/16/2014-06/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 221.06
6/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
5/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -188.36
5/16/2014 Billing 04/17/2014-05/16/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 188.84
5/16/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
4/30/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -208.42
4/17/2014 Billing 03/19/2014-04/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 208.9
4/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
4/1/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -200.94
3/19/2014 Billing 02/18/2014-03/19/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 201.42
3/19/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
3/3/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -286.15
2/18/2014 Billing 01/17/2014-02/18/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 286.63
2/18/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
1/31/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -311.15
1/17/2014 Billing 12/18/2013-01/17/2014 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 311.63
1/17/2014 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
1/2/2014 PAYMENT APPLIED -321.67
12/18/2013 Billing 11/16/2013-12/18/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 322.15
12/18/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
12/3/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -173.54
11/18/2013 Billing 10/17/2013-11/16/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 174.02
11/18/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
10/30/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -120.76
10/17/2013 Billing 09/19/2013-10/17/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 121.24
10/17/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
10/2/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -244.1
9/19/2013 Billing 08/19/2013-09/19/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 244.58
9/19/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
8/30/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -257.57
8/19/2013 Billing 07/18/2013-08/19/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 258.05
8/19/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
7/31/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -255.51
7/18/2013 Billing 06/18/2013-07/18/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 255.99
7/18/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
7/1/2013 PAYMENT APPLIED -166.45
6/18/2013 Billing 05/17/2013-06/18/2013 : 3049 PEDREGAL DR 166.93
6/18/2013 SUREPAY/AUTOPAY DISCOUNT : 3049 PEDREGAL DR -0.48
jgt1942
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- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:41 am
Re: System design with Solar
Teken you did not request the following but my power company made it available, see the attached PDF "APS Electrical Usage Bill for last 24 months June 2013-2015"
APS Electrical Usage Bill for last 24 months June 2013-2015
The power company also provided the following info
My Solar system size is 6.6KW
DC Wattage 6880
System should be generating on the average 1000 KW per month
Sep 2013-July 2014, Highest 990KW, Lowest 510KW
Aug 2014-Mar 2015, Highest 958KW, Lowest 620KW
Apr-May 2015 1134, 1129
APS Electrical Usage Bill for last 24 months June 2013-2015
The power company also provided the following info
My Solar system size is 6.6KW
DC Wattage 6880
System should be generating on the average 1000 KW per month
Sep 2013-July 2014, Highest 990KW, Lowest 510KW
Aug 2014-Mar 2015, Highest 958KW, Lowest 620KW
Apr-May 2015 1134, 1129
- Attachments
-
- APS Electrical Usage Bill for last 24 months June 2013-2015.xlsx
- Terdik Electrical Usage
- (11.33 KiB) Downloaded 241 times
jgt1942
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- Posts: 2700
- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:09 pm
- Location: The Bad Lands
Re: System design with Solar
I wasn't able to open the PDF but looked up the solar panels on line. It states these panels can produce in ideal circumstances 225 watts, correct?jgt1942 wrote:Teken - I'm going to answer your questions in four separate post just to ensure I don't encounter issues with the max size of a post.
Question 1/4 - What do each of the solar panels in the 32 solar panels array *advertised* to generate?
The panels I have are Sunpower SPR-215-BLK and I have uploaded PDF with the specs. Hopefully this will answer all questions you may have about the panels. If not I need to dig more for the answers.
Which is 7200 watts of potential power from the 32 panels combined. I saw the 12 months of electrical bills are the (-) mean these are NET credits from the POCO or what you paid in terms of the balance of power you still consumed over and above what you generated?
Teken . . .
My ongoing projects thread: http://www.brultech.com/community/viewt ... ?f=2&t=929
Buy me a cup of coffee: https://www.paypal.me/Teken https://gfinotify.com/ Discount Code: PC10
My ongoing projects thread: http://www.brultech.com/community/viewt ... ?f=2&t=929
Buy me a cup of coffee: https://www.paypal.me/Teken https://gfinotify.com/ Discount Code: PC10
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Re: System design with Solar
Teken Question 3/4 What is the cost per KWH in your area and are you on any sort of ToU or tiered pricing?
plan: time adv 9pm-9am, epr-6
This means that from 0900-2100 I pay $0.17 per KHW and from 2100-0900 I pay $0.05 per KHW
Following is a bar graph for the month of May 2015.
plan: time adv 9pm-9am, epr-6
This means that from 0900-2100 I pay $0.17 per KHW and from 2100-0900 I pay $0.05 per KHW
Following is a bar graph for the month of May 2015.
jgt1942