Dashbox or Not To Dashobox - Looking for info an opinions

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If you were installing GEM in your own home, which Data Host solution would you go with?

Poll ended at Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:00 am

Re-purpose a desktop PC that you already own?
2
40%
Purchase a new BrulTech DashBox?
3
60%
 
Total votes: 5
k2skaterii
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:04 pm

Dashbox or Not To Dashobox - Looking for info an opinions

Post by k2skaterii » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:00 am

I had concerns with my “All-Electric” house when I purchased it in June 2016.... All summer I was paying $350-$400 electric bills, while those electric bills were annoying, but I had issues to address at the time. The other day my January electric bill came in, $470... $470 is more than annoying, it is enough to make me mad, and it is enough to make me do more than replacing failed incandescent light bulbs with LED’s. If the bill is going to be that high during all of the winter months, then it’s time to invest in circuit level monitoring, time to find the energy hogs, time trim the excess usage, and time to start thinking about major energy saving upgrades.

Even after replacing both 5400W heating elements, and removing roughly 10 lbs. of calcium deposits from my Electric Water Heater, I’d be willing to bet the water heater is consuming more electricity than everything else in the house… With one exception, the heat pump & electric furnace. I’m assuming that heating the house was the biggest expenditure on my recent electric bill, but since this neighborhood doesn’t have natural gas service electric heat is pretty much my only option.

While searching for residential circuit level monitoring solutions I noticed that many of the other solutions require internet connectivity so that my energy consumption data that can be uploaded to and stored on servers owned by the company that developed the product. I consider myself “privacy conscious” not a “privacy nut”, privacy reason's aside I would rather collect and store my data locally in my house, on my network, where I can control it. I’m also concerned with a company’s ability to collect, store and present my data long without imposing some sort of re-occurring fee to cover the cost of the associated computing infrastructure. The nail in the cloud based coffin is driven home when I consider that my ISP meters the amount of data that I upload/download each month, assessing additional charges for every GB I go over my monthly allowance.

For those reasons (there are more) the cloud based solutions are not a good fit for me. Thank you BrulTech, for providing a solution that will allow me to keep all my data on site. I’ll assume responsibility for the cost associated with the hardware. I’ll ensure the system stays up to collect data. I’ll prevent any data from being accessed by a hacker or sold to the highest bidder. Basically I appreciate the option to store data locally, even if something goes wrong, I won’t blaming anyone, except myself… and I can handle that!
My initial plans included a GEM with enough solid core CT's to monitor all 24 active circuit in my house as well as the main lines coming into the house. Assuming I understood the manual earlier, I planned on connecting the GEM VIA a serial cable so a desktop (Win7 or 10) serving as a Data Host. Then, whenever I wanted to review and analyze the data that the GEM collected, I would log into the Data Host locally or VIA remote desktop….
I just noticed the option to have the GEM send data to the DashBox , which sounds cool, but resulted in a few questions.
1. The DASHBOX comes with a 16GB Micro SD card for data storage:
a. Assuming the GEM is fully populated and monitoring 32 circuits, how long can the DashBox collect data before the SD card is filled? Rough estimate is fine.
b. Is the SD card something that I could upgrade in the future, if I decided that a larger 32GB or 128GB SD card would better meet my needs?
c. If the SD card runs out of room, what happens? Is the oldest data deleted to make room for the newer data? Is the new data lost until the issue is resolved?
2. Is there a difference in capabilities between the DashBox Dashboard and the equivalent GUI that I would be using to access the data stored on my local Data Host?
3. If I decide to dedicate an desktop to serve as my Data Host, can that data be accessed from another device on my home network VIA a browser?
4. Is there any way I could connect to a test/demo Dash Box?
a. If there are differences between the DashBox and Data Host GUI’s can I connect to a test/demo console that is not running on a DashBox?

Basically, I’ve got a PC that I can dedicate to use as a Data Host. Other than the DashBox’s low power consumption, small form factor, warranty, and BrulTech support… Are there any benefits to this additional 1-time cost?

In addition to response from BrulTech employees. I’m really interested in hearing from end users who have used both a locally hosted Data Host as well as a DashBox. Did you like one over the other? Feel free to send me a message if you don't want to respond publicly.

BrulTech employees - its not that I don’t trust your opinions or your judgement. I just don't want to avoid asking the car salesman “should I buy a new car or should I keep driving this fully functional 10 year old car with 250,000 miles on it”. I expect the answer will always resemble “oh you don’t want that old clunker, look at this car. It’s the latest model, it’s loaded with every option package you don’t need, the annual maintenance cost are astronomical, and its way out of your price range! You should definitely buy this car.”

Thanks for the help... and sorry for writing a book!

K2skaterii
dbksearay
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:03 am
Location: Ottawa Valley

Re: Dashbox or Not To Dashobox - Looking for info an opinion

Post by dbksearay » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:27 am

I initially chose the Dashbox primarily because of its low power consumption and ready to run from the get go compared to a stand alone PC. However after a year of usage, the best part is its simple ability to sent circuit values to an ISY controller. An ISY controller allows you to program actions based on any of the Dashbox values (including temperature) and times. I use this ability to switch circuits on/off based on the TOU hydro rates, to detect when phantom power circuits are still on. Recently, using the Dashbox, I was able to determine that my house water filters needed changing by viewing the cycle times for the water pump circuit. I am now going to program the ISY to send me a msg when it determines the same increased cycle time.

Regarding your questions on SD card, yes, larger cards can be used. If I recall correctly, Teken (super user you will see here) put a 64GB card in his system and figures he can store 8 years worth of data.
JoeSoMD
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 9:54 am

Re: Dashbox or Not To Dashobox - Looking for info an opinion

Post by JoeSoMD » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:27 am

I have 29 channels in the GEM going to the DashBox, plus 8 temperature sensors for my geothermal HVAC system going to the GEM and to the DashBox. The 29 power channels monitor all of my circuits from a 40 breaker main panel and a 6 (or 8 - can't remember) sub-panel. I ganged some of the breakers into one GEM channel because I didn't need to distinguish between lights and plugs in the master bath (for example)... just knowing the usage in the master bath was good enough for me.

I started monitoring just a few circuits - 8 I think - the big draw items like the hot tub, HVAC, etc. and then expanded it over time to all circuits. When I was monitoring just the 8 circuits I sent the data to SmartEnergyGroups in Australia. It was free, but then became a pay-to-use site. (Not bitching - fully understandable - there is a cost to keeping a site going). But the cost of the site was prohibitive to me even for the 8 channels. So I just send one channel there now (my total draw). That's when I moved to the DashBox and expanded the circuits I was monitoring.

I currently have the DashBox set up as a WiFi access point in my house. I'd like to get it on the home network but haven't figured that out yet. (It's completely doable but I'm not a network guy and have not reached out the the forum for assistance yet. I'd like to retain both the access point via WiFi and ethernet connectivity to the router, and open a port in the router so I can access the data remotely).

To see example charts that you get out of the DashBox google "things not left unsaid: March 2015". It's a dudes blog where he wrote about getting his GEM and DashBox up and running.

I regularly (monthly) download my data from the DashBox in .csv format. I haven't done anything with it yet.

I also have backed-up the DashBox, and I tried looking at the files but they didn't mean anything to me.

The guys at Brultech are awesome, and there are people on the site that are awesome. I struggle with tech and I was able to get through it. I think my install is awesome... see the MyProjects link on the forum. Mine is "my project in Hollywood MD". It came out super clean. I can dress wiring pretty good - but I have limited experience with networking concepts. (Hey, but I was able to use an arduino to get the 1-wire addresses of the existing temperature sensor network in my geothermal system!)

My implementation was a learning thing for me... but the DashBox was a easy-to-implement canned solution that gave me immediate insight into where I was using power (the HW heater is now the KILLER consumer) plus I could get the data out of the box (in .csv format) to drill down if I wanted to.

Good luck with your decision.

Joe Kubinec
Hollywood, MD
Teken
Posts: 2700
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:09 pm
Location: The Bad Lands

Re: Dashbox or Not To Dashobox - Looking for info an opinion

Post by Teken » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:57 pm

k2skaterii wrote:
1. The DASHBOX comes with a 16GB Micro SD card for data storage:
a. Assuming the GEM is fully populated and monitoring 32 circuits, how long can the DashBox collect data before the SD card is filled? Rough estimate is fine.
b. Is the SD card something that I could upgrade in the future, if I decided that a larger 32GB or 128GB SD card would better meet my needs?
c. If the SD card runs out of room, what happens? Is the oldest data deleted to make room for the newer data? Is the new data lost until the issue is resolved?
2. Is there a difference in capabilities between the DashBox Dashboard and the equivalent GUI that I would be using to access the data stored on my local Data Host?
3. If I decide to dedicate an desktop to serve as my Data Host, can that data be accessed from another device on my home network VIA a browser?
4. Is there any way I could connect to a test/demo Dash Box?
a. If there are differences between the DashBox and Data Host GUI’s can I connect to a test/demo console that is not running on a DashBox?

Basically, I’ve got a PC that I can dedicate to use as a Data Host. Other than the DashBox’s low power consumption, small form factor, warranty, and BrulTech support… Are there any benefits to this additional 1-time cost?

In addition to response from BrulTech employees. I’m really interested in hearing from end users who have used both a locally hosted Data Host as well as a DashBox. Did you like one over the other? Feel free to send me a message if you don't want to respond publicly.

BrulTech employees - its not that I don’t trust your opinions or your judgement. I just don't want to avoid asking the car salesman “should I buy a new car or should I keep driving this fully functional 10 year old car with 250,000 miles on it”. I expect the answer will always resemble “oh you don’t want that old clunker, look at this car. It’s the latest model, it’s loaded with every option package you don’t need, the annual maintenance cost are astronomical, and its way out of your price range! You should definitely buy this car.”

Thanks for the help... and sorry for writing a book!

K2skaterii
1A: A 16 GB Micro SD card for one GEM will hold approx two years of minute data. I don't recall off the top of my head what that translates to hour data but its many years in the order of 4-8.

1B: All newer black Dash Box's have external access to the Micro SD card. I am using a 128 GB card now which offers 16 years of minute data. That translates to something crazy like 20 plus years of hourly data.

1C: If the system runs out of memory storage the DB will simply stop recording data. You will be warned well in advance of this happening and you can access the system to tell you how much time vs space is available.

Brultech has started on the back up process already - meaning there is a external back up program where you can back that same information to LAN / WAN / SAN, etc.

2. I don't follow what your asking.

3. If you intend to use any of the 3rd party freeware that resides on a RPi / PC. Its up to you to allow access to the hosted server.

4. You may engage Brultech to view their test box's under development to gain more insight as to what can be seen and done.

4A: I still don't follow what your asking. The DB is intended as a Plug & Play product which requires very little set up and maintenance. It is a premium product and the direct sales of the hardware supports the on going development of the product. If you intend to use any of the 3rd party *Freeware* software all of the setup, maintenance, and trouble shooting is born on you.

The Dash Box (DB) is an extremely low power Linux server which offers more features than any single product on the open market. It is also the only stand alone product which tightly integrates with the ISY Series Controller which supports X-10, Insteon, Z-Wave, ZigBee home automation.

Thus you not only have energy monitoring but energy management all enclosed into one single box.
Teken . . .

My ongoing projects thread: http://www.brultech.com/community/viewt ... ?f=2&t=929
Buy me a cup of coffee: https://www.paypal.me/Teken https://gfinotify.com/ Discount Code: PC10
ben
Site Admin
Posts: 4254
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:39 am

Re: Dashbox or Not To Dashobox - Looking for info an opinion

Post by ben » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:33 am

1. Hour data stores indefinitely. We've been running a test DashBox since around November 2013, the hour data table is around 400MB with indexes.

The entire database size is 12GB, it has 1 GEM and ECM-1240 currently connected, but has had other devices connected for testing also. With some math on the records, it looks like it should hold a bit over 3 years for 1 GEM.

2. The DashBox cost includes ongoing development costs, it's much more advanced then everything else we offer. The dashboard we offer free just gives basic watt/kWh tracking by the minute/hour/day.

If you want to use a computer to host data and want something in-depth, you'll find better options going the 3rd party route (mwalls mtools and the variety of programs it supports for example, https://github.com/matthewwall/mtools).

4. Send me an email, and I'll set you up with a demo (ben(at)brultech.com).
Ben
Brultech Research Inc.
E: ben(at)brultech.com
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