Has anyone made the switch from the Sense monitor to GEM?

[crazydane]

New user here. I'm currently using a Sense energy monitor. It has one set of CTs for the main feed from the utility meter and (optionally) a 2nd set of CTs for the solar feed.

Over time, it is supposed to pick up most/all? of your devices by measuring the "signature/finger print" of each device. Well, after 9 months, my sense has yet to reliably detect my HVAC systems and none of my always on devices like UPS units and various other equipment, so I'm thinking of going with the GEM.

Some questions:

1. Has anyone else made the move from Sense to GEM?

2. I have 400A service and my feeders are 300 MCM copper. Can I use a pair of the SPLIT-200 CTs? I don't believe my usage has ever spiked above 200A, so my main concern is the inside diameter of the CT being able to fit over the 300 MCM feeders?

3. My 2 main 200A sub-panels are filled with 42 circuits each. I have 3rd 200A sub-panel in a shop building some 200' away from the main house. It contains local loads as well as 6 20A 240V circuits for my 20kW solar array. I have a 4th 100A sub-panel located 50' away from the 2 main panels. It handles the loads for my "server room", where I run a number of crytpo miners and have a dedicated 2 ton mini-split AC. So I'm thinking I'd need 3 GEMs total, 2 at the house and 1 at the shop building. Question, can I feed data from all 3 into a single DashBox for a unified view of my overall energy production and consumption?

4. My heat pump has 2 breakers, one for the outdoor compressor unit, and one for the indoor blower unit. To monitor this as a single load, would I wire 2 CRs in series, one on a hot lead on the indoor unit breaker, and one on a hot lead on the outdoor unit breaker.

5. Since I have several always on servers on my network, are there any turn-key software packages available for collecting and presenting the data from the GEM(s)?

6. Does the DashBox allow summing readings from several CTs? For example, I have 6 20A 240V breakers from my solar panel strings. I'd like to combine those into a single graph.

I think that's it for now.

Thanks!

[Teken]

New user here. I'm currently using a Sense energy monitor. It has one set of CTs for the main feed from the utility meter and (optionally) a 2nd set of CTs for the solar feed.

Over time, it is supposed to pick up most/all? of your devices by measuring the "signature/finger print" of each device. Well, after 9 months, my sense has yet to reliably detect my HVAC systems and none of my always on devices like UPS units and various other equipment, so I'm thinking of going with the GEM.

Some questions:

1. Has anyone else made the move from Sense to GEM?

A: There have been lots of people who have used other energy monitors and have moved to the GEM. There aren't any hard stats as to who they are but I can assure you they were very happy to have moved over.

2. I have 400A service and my feeders are 300 MCM copper. Can I use a pair of the SPLIT-200 CTs? I don't believe my usage has ever spiked above 200A, so my main concern is the inside diameter of the CT being able to fit over the 300 MCM feeders?

A: Measure the actual diameter of the service feeds and compare it to the specifications listed here for the Split 200 CT's here: http://www.brultech.com/store/index.php ... er=product

3. My 2 main 200A sub-panels are filled with 42 circuits each. I have 3rd 200A sub-panel in a shop building some 200' away from the main house. It contains local loads as well as 6 20A 240V circuits for my 20kW solar array. I have a 4th 100A sub-panel located 50' away from the 2 main panels. It handles the loads for my "server room", where I run a number of crytpo miners and have a dedicated 2 ton mini-split AC. So I'm thinking I'd need 3 GEMs total, 2 at the house and 1 at the shop building. Question, can I feed data from all 3 into a single DashBox for a unified view of my overall energy production and consumption?

A: I know the Dash Box can support two GEM's for sure. Brultech will need to confirm if three GEM's can be supported for a unified view.


4. My heat pump has 2 breakers, one for the outdoor compressor unit, and one for the indoor blower unit. To monitor this as a single load, would I wire 2 CRs in series, one on a hot lead on the indoor unit breaker, and one on a hot lead on the outdoor unit breaker.

A: To monitor the two you would simply wire the GEM's CT's into one channel for monitoring.

5. Since I have several always on servers on my network, are there any turn-key software packages available for collecting and presenting the data from the GEM(s)?

A: The only turn key solution is from Brultech via the Dash Box. The next would be a cloud hosted service which the GEM supports directly and that is to SEG (Smart Energy Groups). The service still offers a free tier but most of the advanced features are now a part of a paid monthly subscription. Other *Free* solutions require you to set them up on a onsite 24.7.365 computer system or IoT device like a RPi.

6. Does the DashBox allow summing readings from several CTs? For example, I have 6 20A 240V breakers from my solar panel strings. I'd like to combine those into a single graph.

A: Yes

I think that's it for now.

Thanks!

Having used, tested, and demo'd Sense, Smapee, Neurio, and others which use mythical so called desegregation smart analytics. Each and every one of them have been a complete fail and waste of time and finances.

All of these so called energy monitors are toys.

As you know already they offer zero insight or accuracy in anything they measure. The fact people accept and buy into the fact they have to wait days, weeks, months to see some random value is comical!! You hook up a GEM you will literally see accurate values instantly. Not minutes, weeks, days, months!

The hardware is capable of detecting down to 1 watt resolution and the GEM / Dash Box combination can also tell you what *Real* loads are consuming what from watts, amps, volt-amps, PF, KWH, volts, temp, pulse, etc

You will never see any of these toy products installed in a serious Enterprise installation, ever.

[crazydane]

Appreciate the response Teken!

I think you have sold me!

My 300 MCM feeders measure 0.82", so the CT200's will work as they support conductor size up to 0.98".

So are you saying that I can wire two or more CT's in parallel into a single input? For example, if I have 6 15A breakers that do all the ceiling lights on the main floor, I can get 6 Micro-40s and connect them all to a single input on the GEM? If that's true, I can get away with one GEM at the house and one at the shop.

Alternatively, I could run several circuits through a single larger CR as well? Using the above example, I should be able to run all 6 black conductors through a single Micro-80 as long as the routing of the conductors allow for it, right?

I'll go with the Dash Box to keep things simple. I despise paying monthly fees.

[Teken]

Appreciate the response Teken!

I think you have sold me!

My 300 MCM feeders measure 0.82", so the CT200's will work as they support conductor size up to 0.98".

So are you saying that I can wire two or more CT's in parallel into a single input? For example, if I have 6 15A breakers that do all the ceiling lights on the main floor, I can get 6 Micro-40s and connect them all to a single input on the GEM? If that's true, I can get away with one GEM at the house and one at the shop.

A: Technically you can, but physically you can't because all of the wires won't fit inside of the Plug Jack (PJ). What you're going to do is bundle all of the CT wires into a terminal block of your choice as this allows you to insert / remove if and when required. Then a single two pair wire will then go into the GEM's specified channel you deem appropriate. You of course could just bundle all the wires and use a wire nut / marrette.

But going this route does not allow you to trouble shoot (IF) any of the wires are on the wrong polarity. As that will cancel out the readings from the other CT's. Thus, you would be unwinding, winding, looking, and pulling your hair out because it would take forever to figure out which wire was incorrect in terms of polarity.

Alternatively, I could run several circuits through a single larger CR as well? Using the above example, I should be able to run all 6 black conductors through a single Micro-80 as long as the routing of the conductors allow for it, right?

A: This assumes each of the circuits are on the same electrical phase. If they are not the readings will be cancelled out. Best to use single CT's for each circuit because this is a long term investment and you might as well do it right the first go round.

Spend your money once . . .

I'll go with the Dash Box to keep things simple. I despise paying monthly fees.

A: The Dash Box (DB) is the one of the best investments you can ever make besides the GEM. The Brultech team has pushed this box from a humble data storage server to a comprehensive integrated home automation, alert notification, and IoT appliance.

Answers in line, let me know if you have any further questions.

[crazydane]

Good point about the polarity and potential troubleshooting issues. Probably not worth the small cost savings. Ditto on paralleling up the leads from the breakers as that would involve moving them around to ensure they would be on the same phase. Like you said, spend the money once and do it right the first time.

So can I feed other data sources into the Dash Box? I'm particularly interested in having it pull data from my Solar Gateways. They run an open busybox linux kernel and have a simple JSON API. I'd love to be able to pull in data from each of my 80 micro inverters on my solar panels.

[Teken]

Good point about the polarity and potential troubleshooting issues. Probably not worth the small cost savings. Ditto on paralleling up the leads from the breakers as that would involve moving them around to ensure they would be on the same phase. Like you said, spend the money once and do it right the first time.

So can I feed other data sources into the Dash Box? I'm particularly interested in having it pull data from my Solar Gateways. They run an open busybox linux kernel and have a simple JSON API. I'd love to be able to pull in data from each of my 80 micro inverters on my solar panels.

The Dash Box (DB) currently can not ingest any new data not defined within the system. This feature request has been made already in the Dash Box *Feature Request* forum. If you see value in that also please do lend your voice to that thread or create one to show demand for it.

I will surely affirm the very same if you start a new thread as I see great value in being able to ingest other 3rd party data points all in a unified platform like the DB. If you haven't seen the evolution of the DB you can click on my signature to read how the humble DB was a data storage server and has evolved to be something totally different and amazing.

My apologies up front but you may find the first 1~15 pages missing images as Photo Bucket got rid of third party image hosting!! I am in the process of back filling the thousands of images now but its taking a very long time as this projects thread has been running for many years.

Just a quick snap shot of what the DB can do now in case this information isn't presented elsewhere.

1. Provides charts, graphs, dials, of energy, temperature, pulse voltage, weather.

2. Supports local 3rd party weather service to help see how weather impacts the heating / cooling via Open Weather Maps.

3. Supports sending the same data metrics to local / 3rd party cloud hosted services if so desired.

4. Supports IFTTT which allows you to integrate with other devices / cloud hosted services: This is still in Beta but works great.

5. Supports direct integration with one of the best home automation controllers: ISY Series Controller.

6. Provides conditional alert messaging: This is still in Beta but works great.

The humble DB continues to be developed and updated to allow more integration and flexibility. Expect to see more in terms of features and integration in 2017 and beyond.

[crazydane]

I'll check out the Dash Box Feature Request forum and "lend my voice".

I hear you on 3rd party image hosting. I have been a member on many forums over the last 20+ years and have links to 1000's of images in 100's of threads. I have my own server and host all my images there and link directly there from my threads.

All my switches, dimmers and fan controls are all ZWave Plus (GE brand) and I have a Samsung SmartThings hub, but have been thinking of HomeSeer, but if DB is moving in that direction, that would be great!

[Teken]

I'll check out the Dash Box Feature Request forum and "lend my voice".

I hear you on 3rd party image hosting. I have been a member on many forums over the last 20+ years and have links to 1000's of images in 100's of threads. I have my own server and host all my images there and link directly there from my threads. For example:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/teken/sub_panel_amps.JPG



All my switches, dimmers and fan controls are all ZWave Plus (GE brand) and I have a Samsung SmartThings hub, but have been thinking of HomeSeer, but if DB is moving in that direction, that would be great!

I can't speak to the Samsung SmartThings Hub. But I know for a fact the HomeSeer guys have a fantastic plugin for the GEM. This would allow you to integrate directly to your home automation system to manage the Z-Wave network.

As the extension of Energy Monitoring the normal transition to Energy Management is the expected outcome for many of us in the field. Once you know something the next step is to act upon that information. If you have further questions don't hesitate to ask or inquire with the Brultech team.

All of them are committed to service after the sale and have pushed the energy monitoring / energy management space further than any single company in the world.

[crazydane]

I'll check out the HS plugin for GEM. Glad to hear about support as that is one of the other things I don't like about the Sense. There is often a week turn around on tickets.

It appears that the standard configuration is to only monitor voltage on one leg, so L1 to N, and not L1 to L2. Assuming the load is well balanced I guess that is not an issue, but I do like how the Sense monitors both legs and shows voltage between each leg and neutral.

I guess I'll run GEM in parallel with Sense for a while just to validate accuracy. My Sense is never off by more than 2% in any 24 hour period and often it is closer to 0%. Here's my tracker spreadsheet for the last 30 days:



As you can see from the above tables, I have days where I use almost 200 kWh. I would like to see a breakdown on that. Something Sense has not been able to do for me after 9 months of "learning".

I started doing a little planning, and it looks like I can easily fit a GEM to the right of each of my panels and run a 1" or so conduit from each panel to the GEMs:



For the sub-panel in the server room and the shop, I'm wondering if I can go with the ECM-1240 instead as 7 channels will suffice at both of those locations? But perhaps a mix of GEMs and 1240's don't mix well with the Dash Box?

Here's what's on the other side of those 2 main sub-panels:



Overall diagram: (before server room sub-panel was installed)



I did all the electrical work myself, and the solar install as well.

[Teken]

The Dash Box can accept and support a combination of the GEM vs ECM-1240. I see you already have a GFCI outlet at the service panels. You will need to add another outlet or use a power strip as you will require 2 for the PT, 2 for the GEM's PSU, and 1 for Dash Box's PSU.

The PT (Potential Transformer) is what measures and references the line voltage from the utility company. Since you're in the early planning stages I would encourage you to set aside some finances for a small UPS to protect and power the GEM & DB.

One could ask *Why would I ever need to monitor a black out* Good question! Because now you can say with imperial fact how many times your power was lost in a storm / maintenance. The obvious reason is it ensures this large investment is well protected.

The hardware is very robust but deploying a AVR / UPS is just good *Best Practices* while offering more insight during out of band incidents.

P.S.

The electrical work and all the stapling of wires is a master piece of art, Bravo!!