A Journey To GEM / My Big Project

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sub3marathonman
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:32 am

A Journey To GEM / My Big Project

Post by sub3marathonman » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:44 pm

They say the first step is the most difficult, but it was pretty easy to join the Brultech site back in 2/2011. That's when they only had the ECM-1240. It was and still is a great product, and I almost bought one a couple of years ago. But I heard about the GEM and waited.

It is actually the second step that was the most difficult, deciding to invest in the project, not only the money but also the time to attempt to get a decent setup. And with such an expenditure it requires that I install it myself, which should be able to be accomplished despite my less than handyman title.

I've researched the projects listed on this forum, and many are excellent and include great photos. One I've appreciated was daudet's, also Tirnanah's and Vanhalo's, and of course the ultimate project by Teken must be mentioned too.

Before I can start though, I need a bit of help planning where the actual GEM unit should be, and how the CTs will be routed. I'm also wondering if it is NEC code that the wires must be in conduit, because I haven't researched it not knowing what section to look in. What is interesting too is that the photos of previous projects show the electrical box just attached to a wall, as opposed to mine being recessed into the wall.

So I'm wondering if some of those who have gone before me have any suggestion about the best place after looking at the photo. I've liked where people have attached the CT leads to a board and routed Cat5e cables back to the GEM in a more remote location, so that might be an option too, although as pointed out by Teken there is a bit of accuracy loss, although I'm not sure how much.

The problems are the conduit already there which is for the PV Solar, and also the irrigation system control box, which yes, the lid cannot close because the shelf I've put there is too long. One of these days I can shorten the shelf. I've even thought that might free enough space to put the GEM there or maybe even on the shelf, which is made of pegboard at the moment. I've even thought of making a box to go in the corner, which would then be big enough to cover the industrial look that's currently there and look a bit more professional. I'm not handyman enough to do a drywall enclosure as has been done with the two main electrical panels, although there may be space in it to cut and install the GEM there under Subpanel #1, and just run the CTs from Subpanel #2 on the other wall.

As always, any advice is greatly appreciated.
Attachments
DSC01082 Brultech Cropped.gif
DSC01082 Brultech Cropped.gif (3.95 MiB) Viewed 16629 times
Vanhalo
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:41 pm

Re: A Journey To GEM / My Big Project

Post by Vanhalo » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:56 pm

sub3marathonman wrote:They say the first step is the most difficult, but it was pretty easy to join the Brultech site back in 2/2011. That's when they only had the ECM-1240. It was and still is a great product, and I almost bought one a couple of years ago. But I heard about the GEM and waited.

It is actually the second step that was the most difficult, deciding to invest in the project, not only the money but also the time to attempt to get a decent setup. And with such an expenditure it requires that I install it myself, which should be able to be accomplished despite my less than handyman title.

I've researched the projects listed on this forum, and many are excellent and include great photos. One I've appreciated was daudet's, also Tirnanah's and Vanhalo's, and of course the ultimate project by Teken must be mentioned too.

Before I can start though, I need a bit of help planning where the actual GEM unit should be, and how the CTs will be routed. I'm also wondering if it is NEC code that the wires must be in conduit, because I haven't researched it not knowing what section to look in. What is interesting too is that the photos of previous projects show the electrical box just attached to a wall, as opposed to mine being recessed into the wall.

So I'm wondering if some of those who have gone before me have any suggestion about the best place after looking at the photo. I've liked where people have attached the CT leads to a board and routed Cat5e cables back to the GEM in a more remote location, so that might be an option too, although as pointed out by Teken there is a bit of accuracy loss, although I'm not sure how much.

The problems are the conduit already there which is for the PV Solar, and also the irrigation system control box, which yes, the lid cannot close because the shelf I've put there is too long. One of these days I can shorten the shelf. I've even thought that might free enough space to put the GEM there or maybe even on the shelf, which is made of pegboard at the moment. I've even thought of making a box to go in the corner, which would then be big enough to cover the industrial look that's currently there and look a bit more professional. I'm not handyman enough to do a drywall enclosure as has been done with the two main electrical panels, although there may be space in it to cut and install the GEM there under Subpanel #1, and just run the CTs from Subpanel #2 on the other wall.

As always, any advice is greatly appreciated.
My box is recessed and about 35 years old. I chose to install an ELK security box directly below the breaker box. Eventually I will have it replaced allowing for a much cleaner install.

http://www.elkproducts.com/product-cata ... ox-28-inch
Teken
Posts: 2700
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:09 pm
Location: The Bad Lands

Re: A Journey To GEM / My Big Project

Post by Teken » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:07 pm

How do you plan to route the CT wires to the service panel(s)? :?: Also, since your final placement is so close I wouldn't worry too much about voltage drops using CAT5e Ethernet cable. I don't for see you going more than 15 feet in that room! :mrgreen:
Teken . . .

My ongoing projects thread: http://www.brultech.com/community/viewt ... ?f=2&t=929
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sub3marathonman
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:32 am

Re: A Journey To GEM / My Big Project

Post by sub3marathonman » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:09 pm

Teken wrote:How do you plan to route the CT wires to the service panel(s)? :?:
Ummm, I thought that's what you were supposed to tell me!! :lol:

Now, I have removed the little shelf, so for the first time in awhile I can close the door to the irrigation control.

My idea is to put the GEM somewhat there where the left end of the shelf was. It happens, and I had forgotten, that inside the OnQ panel is an electrical outlet with two plugs, one for each of the necessary GEM connections, and I have previously drilled two holes in the OnQ cover to run electric out of the box. So I am limited somewhat by the length of the GEM power cords. I also must use an outlet to power the irrigation control, so I can't fully use the below electrical panel #2 outlet.

I can run a short length of conduit hopefully from the enclosure where the main panel / panel #1 is, but that will then have to traverse across the other conduit already there at the wall.

What I'm unhappy about is how to get the CT wires from panel #2 to the GEM. If I come out of the wall into a box under the panel I'm thinking that won't work the best. I could run them over into the OnQ box possibly, I think I'd have to drill a hole which I wouldn't be thrilled doing, but then I have to get them from the box to the GEM. I guess I could put a third hole in the OnQ cover, but then I'm still needing to get to the GEM, although at that point there wouldn't be far to go.

Vanhalo has suggested the ELK box, which got me searching and I found awhile back Charles05663 installed an ECM-1240 using a BUD Industries box which is now obsolete but I found the close replacement with the clear hinged cover, which could be recessed into the wall there, but then you've got to run the wires from the main panel / panel #1 back into the box inside the wall.

I've looked at many photos, and there have been several helpful views. But incredibly there just does not seem to be anywhere the panel is recessed into the wall showing how the wires are run.

But that's what makes it interesting.
Teken
Posts: 2700
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:09 pm
Location: The Bad Lands

Re: A Journey To GEM / My Big Project

Post by Teken » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:36 pm

You can always purchase short extension cords on line to plug the GEM PS units. Your immediate goal is to decide upon the cleanest approach to enter the electrical panels.

Flush mounting gives an excellent finished look. But is a complete nightmare to do any sort of retrofit or addition of wiring as you know already.

It comes down to how much time, effort, and expense you want to invest in this endeavour. Keeping in mind this will only need to be done once.

Cutting drywall is not very hard at all. So long as you have a firm and sound plan and idea of what you intend to do.

I would remove all the covers first and inspect around them all. Once done take a few pictures so you can reference what you have. This will give you the physical layout and the planning will fall into place from there.

Conduit must be used in your install since your panels are flushed mounted. It will provide a much cleaner look anyways when compared to 32 wires bundled all together!

It goes without saying: Measure twice, cut once!


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Teken . . .

My ongoing projects thread: http://www.brultech.com/community/viewt ... ?f=2&t=929
Buy me a cup of coffee: https://www.paypal.me/Teken https://gfinotify.com/ Discount Code: PC10
sub3marathonman
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:32 am

Re: A Journey To GEM / My Big Project

Post by sub3marathonman » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:08 pm

Teken wrote:
I would remove all the covers first and inspect around them all. Once done take a few pictures so you can reference what you have. This will give you the physical layout and the planning will fall into place from there.

Conduit must be used in your install since your panels are flushed mounted. It will provide a much cleaner look anyways when compared to 32 wires bundled all together!

It goes without saying: Measure twice, cut once!


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Here is the main panel, cover removed (for some reason it is rotated 90 degrees left, don't know how to fix that):
DSC_8826.JPG
DSC_8826.JPG (2.83 MiB) Viewed 16592 times
Here is Panel #1, cover removed:
DSC_8848.JPG
DSC_8848.JPG (2.31 MiB) Viewed 16592 times
Here is Panel #2, cover removed:
DSC_8824.JPG
DSC_8824.JPG (2.75 MiB) Viewed 16592 times
And I can see that my photos too are focused on the panel, and don't really show the edge portion where it is recessed. It can go out from the main panel at the bottom, as it can from Panel #1 also. It doesn't really show it, but Panel #2 is just to the right of the OnQ box, from the initial post, with a stud separating them.
sub3marathonman
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:32 am

Re: A Journey To GEM / My Big Project

Post by sub3marathonman » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:14 pm

Teken wrote:
Conduit must be used in your install since your panels are flushed mounted. It will provide a much cleaner look anyways when compared to 32 wires bundled all together!


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That is what I was hoping to have work out perfectly with the layout of the panels, the wires will be coming from three separate locations. Or two if I bundle the Main Panel and Panel #1 together.
scyto
Posts: 258
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:24 pm

Re: A Journey To GEM / My Big Project

Post by scyto » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:19 am

I am jealous of how tidy that panel is, and so much space!!

I took a break from my install over the summer, I had the gem sitting on the floor of my basement for a few months as I hadn't mounted it, with CT leads spewing straight out of breaker front :-)

I will post a picture of how far I have got, I have a local electrician who charges by the hour and will get his help for routing the CT leads as the breaker box is recessed and I am leary of cutting open the wall around the breaker - not to mention how little space is in mine...
sub3marathonman
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:32 am

Re: A Journey To GEM / My Big Project

Post by sub3marathonman » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:17 pm

OK, I too have taken an unwanted break from installing the GEM, but after doing a bit of research I have a question.

On the GEM Support subforum, topic "Watts not zero when breaker is off," peppersass has a couple of photos of the installation. Now, as peppersass is far ahead of me, I'm wondering about how the CT wires were routed:
Brultech Installed by peppersass Photo 1.JPG
Brultech Installed by peppersass Photo 1.JPG (253.16 KiB) Viewed 16449 times
This was then cleaned up to, which I thought looked pretty good:
Brultech Installed by peppersass Photo 2.JPG
Brultech Installed by peppersass Photo 2.JPG (209.89 KiB) Viewed 16449 times
Now what I was wondering is if it is OK to cut the CT leads to an appropriate length when the GEM is mounted in the final location, or should they be kept as original and gathered as peppersass did?
Teken
Posts: 2700
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:09 pm
Location: The Bad Lands

Re: A Journey To GEM / My Big Project

Post by Teken » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:26 pm

You can cut them to length once you're done. Many leave them the same length in case the unit needs to be moved or orientated.

No harm, no fowl either way.


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Teken . . .

My ongoing projects thread: http://www.brultech.com/community/viewt ... ?f=2&t=929
Buy me a cup of coffee: https://www.paypal.me/Teken https://gfinotify.com/ Discount Code: PC10
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